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By Andrew Daly
andrew@vinylwriter.com

Although R.E.M. called it quits eleven years ago, the Georgia-bred band’s fanbase is as ravenous as ever, hanging on each member’s every move.

Bassist Mike Mills is no stranger to the phenomenon, but when asked if R.E.M. will ever buckle and satiate its undying fanbase begging for a reunion, the veteran bassist made it clear that he’s not looking back.

“I don’t believe we will get together or perform again. I really don’t,” Mills said. “I really do feel that we want to be the one band that broke up and meant it.”

Despite being semi-retired, Mills is increasingly busy, with new music coming by way of his cheekily titled Baseball Project, which finds Mills alongside some old friends, scratching his rock itch and paying homage to the game he loves.

Ever-creative, Mills is also taking an explorative dive into symphonic music with R.E.M. Explored. The project finds Mills translating the galvanizing Athens legends’ music for classical-leaning audiences, proving that the music of R.E.M. truly knows no bounds.

“Really, we’re just trying to break down some walls here,” recounted Mills. “I hate the genre definitions that people find themselves in; I prefer to think of music as just music. Although, of course, writers have to have some sort of descriptor to talk about it. But we’re just trying to show that all music is connected, and you can enjoy it all.”

Taking a break from the whirlwind, Mills dialed in from his home in Georgia, where among other things, the bassist recounted the history of R.E.M.’s debut EP Chronic Town, the inside scoop on his songwriting process, his affinity for the music of Big Star, and what lies ahead for the future.

Andrew:
First, I wanted to hit on the Athens, GA, indie rock scene, a hotbed R.E.M. came up in. What are some of your recollections, Mike?

Mike:
Oh, well, we could spend a whole hour talking about that alone. It was a remarkable place to be. But the point of a scene is that you’re not necessarily aware that you’re in a scene, right? We were just a bunch of kids doing whatever our creative expression told us to do and having fun while doing it. There was a like-minded committee of people who had the same energy and were listening to similar music, so that made it special. And you have to remember, back in those days, it wasn’t easy to find that kind of music; you had to make an effort to listen to it; it wasn’t all presented to you on a silver platter. So, to find these things that you were interested in, you had to put some effort into it, hang out at the record store, read the fanzines, and do all the things that would give you the information you needed.

Andrew:
As I understand it, you were one of, if not the only, member of R.E.M. who had formal musical training. How important was that in the early days of the band?

Mike:
Well, Bill [Berry] was also trained. Bill could read music; I mean, he played in theater and things like that, so Bill was also conversant in that language. That being said, it was certainly very helpful for me to be able to translate the desires and wishes of Michael [Stipe] and Peter [Buck] into more concrete things. While I had a better understanding of how things were constructed, on the other hand, what made it work was the fact that the part of the thrill is when you don’t have that understanding, you don’t know any rules, and you just sort of go for things and make them up as you go along. So, it’s funny because that makes even more sense, oddly enough.

Andrew:
We’ve just celebrated the 40th anniversary of R.E.M.’S debut EP, Chronic Town. How did those songs initially come together?

Mike:
So, the way we wrote songs was that somebody would bring in an idea from really anywhere. It could have been from just the germ of an idea all the way to a fully formed song, and we’d work on them together. Because that’s pretty much all we were doing; sitting around, writing songs, playing songs, and doing shows. So, songwriting was kind of a 24-hour application, if you will. But that’s what happened there; somebody would bring in an idea; those were mostly Peters’s ideas; I hadn’t really gotten going. I mean, “Radio Free Europe” was kind of mine, but most of Chronic Town was Peter’s ideas. So, he would come up with ideas, show them to the band, we’d flesh them out, and hopefully, we’d end up with something good. I think “Stumble” was a little more of a put-together track; Peter had that riff, but we put that song together in the studio a little more than the other ones. It was all very organic. That’s how we wrote all of our songs.

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Andrew:
I did want to hit on “Radio Free Europe.” What was your approach in putting together that track?

Mike:
I remember I was in a record store, and it was closed because there was a “concert,” and that’s a pretty formal word for what was happening upstairs. [Laughs]. But there was a band playing upstairs, and I’d wandered downstairs, grabbed an electric guitar, plugged it in, and I was just sort of writing. It was just those basic chords in the verse, and then I hit that key on the higher fret, and it all started making sense. It’s funny because you’re just sort of finding your way when you’re writing songs like that; I didn’t necessarily have pre-made ideas; I just sort of grabbed the guitar, started messing around, and would see what came out of it. And that’s what happened with “Radio Free Europe.”

Andrew:
How did R.E.M. ultimately get hooked up with Mitch Easter, and how important was he to the overall sound of Chronic Town?

Mike:
We were really lucky that our former manager had contact with Peter Holsapple, who we would later work with on Out of Time; he suggested Mitch. So, we went out and saw Mitch and his place; we said, “This is perfect,” and we did the EP there. It was a real collaboration between the four of us and Mitch; for both Chronic Town and Murmur, we were very simpatico, and we all had similar ideas about what to do and how to do it. We were all open to fun ideas, and Mitch was full of fun ideas and still is; I just worked with him on the Baseball Project, so he’s still a joy to work with. On those early albums, there was just a bunch of people who really didn’t necessarily know what they were doing, being creative, and hitting the bull’s eye a few times.

Andrew:
Would you say that Mitch was as responsible for creating the sound of R.E.M. as the band members were themselves?

Mike:
No, but he was certainly responsible for helping us translate our sound onto vinyl. We kind of had our own sound; Peter’s guitar playing style was unique – especially for that time – it was very unique, although that’s redundant. But Mitch was certainly very important in helping us translate what we were trying to do onto vinyl. It was a collaboration. It was everybody throwing ideas around and saying, “Let’s try this. Let’s try that.” And, you know, Mitch had some technical skills that enabled him to run the studio, but we weren’t short of ideas; Mitch had plenty, and so did we.

Andrew:
Can you describe the importance of college radio in getting your music out there to the masses?

Mike:
We were really lucky with college radio that it picked up roughly the same time we did. The way we knew it in the ’80s was different from where it was because college radio, as everyone knew it in the ’70s, was the provenance of the late-night stoners and the guys who would put on the twenty-minute album side and would then go outside to smoke. Of course, that continued to happen well into the ’80s, but as far as college radio goes, many people were sick of commercial radio, and college radio provided an alternative – literally – to what everyone else was being force-fed on commercial radio. There was just this amazing synergy between all these bands that were getting started who all had rejected corporate rock and the overproduced stuff you heard on the radio. Then you had a bunch of college kids that were willing to play and listen to these new things, and there was kind of a punk ethic to that, you know? It was a rejection of the norm and a rejection of corporate thinking. So, we grew up together, both college radio and R.E.M., and we were very good to each other.

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Andrew:
What were the biggest lessons that R.E.M. took away from the recording of Chronic Town?

Mike:
Oh, man, I don’t know if we were listening for any lessons. [Laughs]. At that point, I think we just found that the studio is not necessarily something to be afraid of. And I think we just found that if you find the right person and the right place, you could really have as good a time making a record as you could playing a live show. As far as lessons go, our lesson was always to trust your instincts and do what you think is right. You can listen to other advice, but do not be overly swayed by what the powers that be may think.

Andrew:
Some 40 years later, how do you quantify Chronic Town’s importance?

Mike:
In terms of R.E.M., certainly, it was the right step for us to make a five-song EP instead of trying to make an album. Our whole growth process was really gradual, from the single to the EP to the first album and all the subsequent ones. So, it was important in that it gave us the right format to measure where we were at that point. We were already writing good songs; that was clear, but would they translate to the final product in a way that was clear and to the point? So, it was very useful for us as another stone on the path that we were on. As far as importance to the world at large, that’s not for me to say, but for us, it was a bit of a validation that we were on the right track.

Andrew:
Moving forward, I wanted to hit on a song you had a heavy hand in creating later in R.E.M.’s career, “Nightswimming.” What are your memories of its composition?

Mike:
That was really just a piano riff that I started playing and worked on. To call it a composition is almost a bit of an overstatement; it’s really a nice piano riff. It goes around and around and around, and Michael heard it, really liked it, and began writing to it. And at one point, I said, “Okay, well, it needs an intro,” and so I wrote the intro as a very simple version of the riff and then reused the intro with a couple of breaks. And then, I did the string parts with John Paul Jones, and the oboe was by Deborah Workman. John did some of the strings, but a lot of string parts were mine. Over time, it just became a song, and it was such an organic process. People think of it as a composition, but it’s really just like building a house in a way; you start with a little foundation, and then you add on all the other parts. Then you top it with a roof, and hopefully, you end up with something that keeps the rain out.

Andrew:
Another favorite credited to you is “What’s the Frequency, Kenneth?” it’s easily one of R.E.M.’s heaviest tracks; can you recall its inception?

Mike:
It’s weird; I look back at that now, and I think, “How the hell did I write that?” You know, those chords, when I showed them to Peter, he just looked at me like I was crazy. [Laughs]. But they made sense to me; there was a certain linear path that I thought they took that just seemed right. Listening back to it now, I do wonder how I thought of that, but it made sense then. To me, that was the only way it could go, but that song was not one that just flowed out like lava; it took some molding and some forming. But, you know, I love a minor chord, and one minor chord can make a big difference in a song. I’ve always used that in a lot of the songs I’ve written; I just try to throw a minor chord in there somewhere, almost like a bridge. A bridge exists to take the listener out of the song for a little while and to another place, and then the song brings you back. So for me, a minor chord does a similar thing, especially if there’s only one; it adds a whole other dimension to the song. And that’s kind of what the B minor did in “What’s the Frequency, Kenneth?” It was a really fun song to write, and I was actually really pleased that Peter took the time to learn it. I’m glad he did because it came together really well.

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Andrew:
One of R.E.M.’s more polarizing efforts is Around the Sun. What are your retrospective musings on that particular record and its reception?

Mike:
Well, Around the Sun has some really great songs on it. But we made a mistake; we thought that we could take a break, do a tour, and come back and finish the record. In retrospect, that was obviously a mistake. Because when you’re making a record, it’s supposed to capture what a band is at that moment, or in those few weeks or months that you’re making the record. So, when we walked away from it, it was really hard to come back and focus. I feel bad for that record in that we did not give it the pure focus that it deserved. If you listen to the Live at the Olympia record that we did in Dublin, you’ll hear some of the songs from Around the Sun, and they’re amazing. They’ve got power, and they’ve got a quality to them. I just think that, unfortunately, with Around the Sun, we just got diffused a little bit from going on the road. I wish we’d stayed and finished it because I think it would have been a much stronger record. But the songs themselves are good; I’m proud of the songs on that record. Some people hate the record, and some people love it, but it was a bit unfocused simply because of how we recorded it.

Andrew:
Pushing forward to the present day, catch me up with what’s on tap most recently.

Mike:
Well, the Baseball Project just finished a record couple of months ago, and hopefully, that’ll be out next year in the spring sometime, we hope. I’ve got a couple of Big Star tours coming up; we’re going to do shows with the Big Star band. And then my concerto has a few lives of its own; it’s going to be streaming on a public broadcast as A Night of Georgia Music, which is the concerto but the first half of the show is an hour of songs either about Georgia, by Georgia artists, or a combination of both. It’s great because they are arranged for both the symphony and a rock band, which is very exciting. And then, I’m about to premiere the symphonic version of the concerto at the end of the month in Atlanta. The first hour is a bunch of R.E.M. songs arranged by two really great arrangers for the symphony. And then the second part of the show will be the concerto arranged for the full symphony for the first time. So, it’s sort of a brave new world out there for us in the symphonic realm.

Andrew:
Starting with the Baseball Project, what does that allow you to do creatively?

Mike:
Oh, well, you know, obviously, there was a glaring void of bands that focused on baseball. [Laughs]. So, we decided to fill that. Honestly, it’s a lot of fun; it’s people that are really good friends writing songs about a sport they really enjoy. Baseball is full of stories, tradition, and history and is a very fertile ground for songwriting. It just gives us a chance to hang out together, which is really the best part.

Andrew:
On the symphonic side of things, how does that allow you to stretch out in ways that playing rock music doesn’t?

Mike:
To start, dipping a toe into the symphonic ocean is a very daunting thing, but I do it. I did it because my dear friend Robert McDuffie is a great violinist who encouraged me to write and then who commissioned me to write the concerto. I have a great arranger in David Mallamud, who helped make this possible, and Carl Marsh, who arranged the strings on Big Star’s third record. He is also one of the arrangers for the R.E.M. Explored symphonic show too. For me, it’s just a chance to see if my music translates; I grew up around classical music, and my father was a dramatic tenor, so I’m not unfamiliar with it. It’s really fun to see if you can bring those two worlds together, and that’s one thing we’re trying to do; show people that just because you like rock ‘n’ roll, that doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy the symphonic or string orchestra version of it. And if you’re a classical fan, the bridge between them exists, and you can enjoy rock ‘n’ roll as well with the combination of the two.

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Andrew:
How does your process change when writing symphonic music as opposed to writing a traditional rock song?

Mike:
It doesn’t change all that much for me, actually. I don’t know how to explain it, but I just like to write a good melody. So, when I was writing the concerto, I was focused on the melody for Bobby’s violin. I’d never written specifically for violin before, but melody is melody. I just wanted to make sure that what Bobby had to play was memorable and exciting, and the melody was really great to help translate that into actual violin music. But I wasn’t trying to write it as a classical composer; I was trying to just write songs and to write music with great melodies. And if that happened in the end, with the string orchestra around it, then all the better. But really, for me, it just comes back to melody at all times.

Andrew:
It goes without saying that Big Star influenced R.E.M. How gratifying is it for you to take the stage and translate the music that has been so important to your musical trajectory?

Mike:
Well, it’s a labor of love, and Jody Stephens – Big Star’s original drummer – is one of the main reasons we do this, and Chris Stamey is a big fan like me as well. We just enjoy the music, and it’s really fun to bring it to people who may not know it. One of the great things about what R.E.M. has been able to do over the years is to be ambassadors for music, to tell people in interviews about the bands that we like, or take bands out on the road opening for us that people might not have had a chance to hear. With the Big Star thing, obviously, we brought that music to some people and keeping that music alive is very important. Great music exists on vinyl, and that’s wonderful, but it’s also really important to play it live. So, we’ve got a thing at the Alex Theatre coming up in November, where we’re doing Big Star’s whole 3rd record, and then we’ve got a tour coming up in December, where we’re focusing more on the first record. It’s just really fun to play this music; I’m semi-retired, so I get to pick and choose the things I want to do. For me, playing Big Star music with Jodi, Chris, and those guys is super fun.

Andrew:
How would you measure the importance of Big Star on popular music?

Mike:
It’s been about fifty years since the first record came out, and who can say for sure? But I do know that a lot of the musicians whose music I love are also huge fans of Big Star. I mean, they did what a lot of guys and girls I knew wanted to do. They made music; they wrote great songs, and they had great melodies that had power and energy, but also beauty and emotion. So, if you can combine those things onto a record, then you’ve succeeded, as far as I’m concerned. I mean, as far as what a band wants to do, you want to write great songs that move people, and I think that’s what Big Star did as well as anyone.

Andrew:
It’s been eleven years since R.E.M. called it a day. Do you guys feel like you left anything on the table?

Mike:
No, we did not leave anything on the table. That’s one reason we were able to walk away from it; we had literally accomplished everything we could think of to accomplish. There was really nothing left to do that we hadn’t already done at least once. People ask if I miss it, and I always say, “Not really,” because of the fact that it was time to walk away. If I had felt that it wasn’t really time, and we had things to do, I would miss it more. But I think we’re all at peace with the fact that that we made the right decision at the right time. And that’s a rare and lucky thing.

Andrew:
When you look back at your contributions to R.E.M., what are you most proud of personally?

Mike:
You know, that’s a good question. I guess I don’t really think of it in terms of specific songs or albums; I think of it in terms of the whole. I think the fact that I wrote really creative melodic bass lines when they were appropriate and the fact that I played keyboards really helped add a dimension to the band’s sound. The fact that I could sing, had a pretty good ear for harmonies, could write melodies, and things like that, those are the things that I think about if I think about it, which I don’t do that much. But if I do, those are the things I think about when I look at what I contributed to the band rather than any one song, bassline, or anything like that. I just really enjoyed the entire process that we had.

Andrew:
Despite the inactivity, people still want more. To what do you attribute the continued relevance of R.E.M., Mike?

Mike:
Well, any timeless music should always have relevance. One thing we always wanted to do when we made our records was make sure that they did not sound specific to the year in which they were created. So, you can listen back to Automatic for the People or Monster, and it could come from now, it could come from ten years ago, or fifty years ago. That’s what good music is to me. It’s timeless, and you can listen to it at any point in your life and still enjoy it. I think that’s what we were shooting for, kinda like Big Star. It’s what Big Star’s music does; it’s what the Baseball Project’s music does, and it’s what R.E.M.’s music does. If you’ll pardon the phrase, it exists in and out of time.

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Andrew Daly (@vwmusicrocks) is the Editor-in-Chief for www.vwmusicrocks.com and may be reached at andrew@vinylwriter.com

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